carbon trading,

i need info about how to get carbon credits.

7 replies

Lindis C. 150°

Hi Sandeep, it would help if you gave a bit more context about what you're looking for in carbon credits. Are you just wanting to offset your personal carbon footprint for travel etc? Or are you wanting to generate carbon credits that you can trade?

More info about what you're looking for would be really useful.

Written in April 2009

Charles M. 110°

Carbon offsetting is a scam. It just sells "feel good" to appease eco-guilt and as a PR move to claim zero-carbon status for destructive projects.

Written in April 2009

Daniel S. 12°

Basically the idea was to reduce emissions where it can achieved with minor cost. Even if some effects were ambiguous it was the first time the attention was focused on saving energy, while before companies often earned two times with selling guzzling gear and selling gas. It so happened that many projects of carbon-trade origin ended up being profitable even without the carbon-trade scheme.
To transform the whole of the old production to new standards will require a major effort and companies can postpone their upgrade scheme by buying emission rights.
If there is enough pressure from consumers
by choosing the most efficient product the process can be accelerated considerably. There are carbon offset bonuses for every occasion from laptop-vignettes to air-travel tickets and every cent going in that direction is helping to prevent climate change.

Written in April 2009

Ian G. 111°

you might try norjeesun(I think he's on hotmail)

Written in April 2009

Charles M. 110°

There is a distinction to be made between carbon trading and carbon offsetting.

Carbon trading is the notion that carbon footprint can be divided up (somehow) giving everyone a carbon share. If you don't use your whole share then you can sell it to someone that wants more. If you are *actively* sinking carbon then you can use that or sell that too.

Offsetting is far looser and can be claimed for thinks which are not actively impacting carbon. For example, education or planting trees (which will only actually remove significant amounts of carbon in 20 years or so).

Offsetting is clearly a very easy thing to scam: paying the CEO of some company that is nominally involved in renewable research is not actively removing carbon.

Trading is very difficult to make equitable. If it is made expensive enough to impact on the behavior of rich folk, then it will be punitive for poorer folk.

So what about taxes? Surely a tax would gather money to go into tree planting or research etc? Unfortunately most tax gathering is pretty inefficient and carbon tax gathering would be even less efficient because carbon accounting is far more complex than regular accounting. If a carbon tax was less than 10% or so then most of the tax would be swallowed up by the administration and little would flow through to be useful.

It is very hard to make any punitive tax work for anything except what some might consider luxuries with very high tax rates. Even then it seldom works: tobacco duty of 100% has less impact than health concerns.

Any tax level that would have impact on behavior would have to be so high that it would be highly inflationary.

When John Travolta goes for an afternoon spin in his private jet do you really think a few dollars will make a difference to his decision to burn a few hundred gallons of gas? If you added enough taxes to make him change his behavior then average folk would be severely impacted.

Written in April 2009

Ian G. 111°

not to muddy the water further because I agree with Charles M- especially about the tax part -although John Travolta seems like a nice guy- if he wants to do something , he will. The thing is, it seems to me with some people there is too much thinking and talking and not enough acting, thats not what celcias seems to be about. I've always been about positive action, for instance, directly investing in a project/activity/company that stands to make a difference. Although their activity is NOT doing something (deforestation) I believe companies like World Forest Credits or Carbon Conservation are just that, and in some cases some people get a hand up in the process as is pointed out in this quote from CC's website
" Aceh's expansive 3.5 million ha of tropical forests are a critical last refuge for endangered tigers, elephants, rhinos and orangutans. These forests provide ecosystem services essential to Aceh's recovery, including clean water production, flood prevention, erosion mitigation, and climate regulation. In eleven years, Sumatra lost over 6.5 million hectares of forest, a 30% reduction. Post tsunami (December 2004), demand for timber in Aceh has rocketed, fuelling an illegal logging boom.
Why Carbon Conservation & Fauna & Flora International?
Carbon Conservation's (CC) mission is to save large areas of threatened tropical forests using carbon finance with speed and integrity. CC is an established global leader in Avoided Deforestation (AD) voluntary carbon credit creation and financing. CC implemented - from conception all the way through to sales - the first major AD project accepted into Australia's national greenhouse gas program, the Rio Tinto Aluminum pilot which created 1.25M carbon credits from protecting 13,000 hectares in Queensland Australia.. Carbon Conservation is partnering with Fauna & Flora International (FFI), the world's oldest conservation organization and the Province of Aceh, to present high-integrity, robust carbon credits in the Ulu Masen forest ecosystem. FFI has implemented law enforcement, protected area managment, and buffer zone development conservation projects in Indonesia since 1996 . FFI leads the Aceh Forest and Environment Project (AFEP), the largest World Bank-funded project in the Indonesian forestry sector (Au$16.9M), and the largest conservation NGO project in Asia. Aceh Province, under the leadership of Governor Irwandi, is committed to a future Aceh that is green, sustainable, and productive. Together we have assisted Aceh Provincial to commit to reducing deforestation through carbon financing. We are working with Wildlife Warriors & Humane Society International to engage the public and campaign for support and funding.
World's First CCBA Approved Avoided Deforestation Project
In February 2008, we were the worlds first Community Climate Biodiversity Alliance approved avoided deforestation project independently validated by Smartwood. This creates an opportunity to join a ground breaking carbon finance transaction that will create emission reductions across the semiautonomous province of Aceh and will alleviate poverty and protect biodiversity.

Written in April 2009

Charles M. 110°

Tree growing is a very good example of how any sort of carbon offsetting should be handled, but is not.

Planting trees does nothing to reduce CO2. It is growing the trees that actually does something useful, and that takes a lot of time. The CO2 taken up by a tree is directly proportional to the wood that the tree creates. If you look at the wood in a 40 year old tree, it was laid down something like this:
* 5% in first ten years
* 15% in next ten years
* 30% in next ten years
* 50% in last 10 years

[Species and location dependent of course, but that's the basic idea].

The problem with far too many carbon offsetting programs is that they don't actually tie their claimed value to actual CO2 uptake. ie. Too many plant the tree and immediately claim that they have done their bit to suck up a tree's worth of carbon.

This is credit card thinking, and we've all recently seen what too much credit does....

If you're buying trees to offset, as an example, air travel then you're still in "carbon debt" until those trees have grown to maturity. You should be doing one of:
1) Buy trees and wait for them to grow (ie. wait 30+ years) before you take that trip.
2) Handle it like a real bank and pay "carbon interest" on your debt by planting more trees each year until the debt is paid off.

Of course the carbon offsetting industry would not like that. They're in the business of providing a guilt absolution service at a relatively low cost: pay us some money **now** any your eco-sins are immediately forgiven. They have no interest in their customers actually reducing consumption, just guilting them into making payments.

Real carbon trading is another matter. It deals with the year-by-year "carbon balance". You only get the credit when the actual carbon flows (ie. when the tree is 30 years old). By only dealing with real transfer of real carbon, carbon trading would directly link action to cost. However there is little business opportunity for the carbon industry to make vast piles of money from that so don't expect it to go anywhere.

Written in April 2009

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